BUSINESS: Jobs - US & India

Here's a strange juxtaposition of stories from the SAJA E-mail Discussion List (a daily collection of articles in the U.S. press about South Asia and the Diaspora; only a tiny fraction show up on SAJAforum; if you'd like to subscribe at no charge, go to http://www.saja.org/lists.html).

Students Fear for Job Prospects in U.S. Visa Crunch (Reuters, April 6) by Jim Finkle:

As foreign students prepare to graduate from U.S. universities this spring, many worry that a record number of applications for U.S. skilled-worker visas may cause them to lose jobs they have already been offered.

Fresh university graduates are vulnerable to being rejected for the H-1B visas designated for skilled workers. A record 150,000 H-1B applications were filed in one day this week, nearly double the number U.S. authorities are allowed to grant in a given fiscal year.
<snip>
ome employers feel it is no longer worth the hassle to obtain U.S. visas for their staff.

Internet entrepreneur Rakesh Mathur spent years securing visas to hire engineers for a string of companies he founded in Silicon Valley. With his current venture, a Web technology company known as Webaroo, he decided to hire the bulk of his workers overseas, with 15 employees in the United States and about 100 in India.

"The demand for talent is very real," he says. "And there is a shortfall of trained talent in the United States."

Read the full story and contrast it with the following story from India.

High-tech firms in India search frantically for trained workers (Associated Press, April 6) by Tim Sullivan:

Nearly two decades into India’s phenomenal growth as an international centre
for high technology, the industry has a problem: It’s running out of
workers.

Perhaps India can attract the America-trained students - Indian and non-Indian?

Post your comments below.

Comments

[Vikas]

Many of my friends and acquaintances are graduating this summer and they are really worried about securing a visa. The situation is ridiculous, specially considering the fact that 7 out of 10 visas have been applied for by Indian IT off-shoring companies. US is basically telling these grad students to leave the country - a moronic policy.

[Jaya Kamlani]

Vikram,
Your comment stating "The situation is ridiculous, specially considering the fact that 7 out of 10 visas have been applied for by Indian IT off-shoring companies" is very interesting.

So not only are US companies outsourcing jobs to India, but many of the new graduate IT students will most likely also be shipped to India once the Indian company has obtained visas for them. The future for IT jobs certainly looks very bleak in America. IT jobs and IT engineers are moving to India. That's the message we get. India wants all the US educated and trained engineers to return home.

I feel sad how US and Indian technology companies have taken advantage of this global economy. American employees are left empty-handed. And the current US political situation is promoting more of the same. I am surprised more journalists are not writing about it. If they did, there would be enough of an outcry. Looks like the people of America have lost their power in the last decade, and it is difficult to slow down this outsourcing/offshoring machinery, other than tune into Lou Dobbs' show every evening and sigh. Someday soon US may have the same trade imbalance with India as it now has with China.

Sree,
I am surprised by your closing comment in your aticle: "Perhaps India can attract the America-trained students - Indian and non-Indian?" Your comment suggests it is perfectly appropriate for US-trained engineers to be shipped to India to fill in the job openings there. Nothing wrong in making a suggestion. But if the engineers are all going to be located in India, where is the incentive for US companies to keep the jobs here in America?

I think we tend to be so blindly loyal to the country we originated from (India) that we forget we also owe some loyalty to US which has been feeding us all these years. As the Indian saying goes, we should not become "Namak Haraam." In other words, you don't walk away from a home or country that has fed you for so long.

Jaya Kamlani

[Jaya Kamlani]

Vikas,

Sorry I addressed you as Vikram in my last comment. I was just so engulfed in my thoughts, I did not realize I addressed you as someone else. Nevertheless, my last comment is meant for both you and Sree.

Jaya Kamlani

[Jaya Kamlani]

Vikas,

I have two more questions for you.

1. When you state "The situation is ridiculous, specially considering the fact that 7 out of 10 visas have been applied for by Indian IT off-shoring companies" Could you share the name of these Indian companies with us, if you happen to know? I assume these Indian companies also have US offices.

I was happy when I read Sree's article that 150,000 Indian graduates in the US would be granted H1B visas until I read your comment, which made me think otherwise i.e. that these US-educated and US-trained Indians are returning to India. In other words they came here only for American education, which is why perhaps American universities are planning to open their campuses in India.

Jaya Kamlani

[Vikas]

Jaya - Some clarifications are in order

1. Indian students in the US will not be handed out 150,000 visas. There are only 65,000 H1B visas to be given out, plus 20,000 visas that are reserved for students with a Masters degree from a US university. It seems like the 65,000 "general quota" visas were filled in a day, and there is no word yet from the labor department on the "Masters degree quota" (bringing our Indian Mandal commission jargon here!).
2. Actually it is not 7 but 8 out of ten. To quote from a recent article from Chidu Rajaghatta from TOI

"A survey of H1-B petitions for 2007 showed eight of the top ten applicants were either Indian firms (such as Infosys, Wipro, TCS etc) or US firms with large workforce in India such as Accenture and Cognizant."

So while I am all for these Indian firms making a name for themselves and what not, in reality, Americans are getting a double whammy because of them. One, these firms are actually using H1B visa holders to assist in off-shoring of jobs and second, these companies have so overwhelmed the system, that US educated international students are finding it hard to get a visa so they are going back to their native countries. Actually, make it a triple whammy because the trickle down effect of these students not getting a visa is that it discourages other students in their native countries to come to the US for higher studies.

3. Quote "In other words they came here only for American education, which is why perhaps American universities are planning to open their campuses in India." Unquote.
As far as I know, an overwhelming majority of students from India come with job aspirations and want to work in the US at least for the mediums term. Of course, if you have a family run business in India and you were sent to get a US education "stamp" from a decent B-school in the US, then of course, you'd want to go back to run your family business but otherwise, people want to stay back and work in the US.

4. Quote "The future for IT jobs certainly looks very bleak in America.". That is not entirely true. Despite all the off shoring, computer programmers and other IT personnel are in great demand. Despite all the hyperbole from Lou Dobbs types, if you are a skilled IT person, there will be no problem whatsoever in getting a job in the US (unless of course, you hit the visa bottleneck.)

[Jaya Kamlani]

Vikas,

I was SPEECHLESS when I read your response to the H1B visa situation and the double and triple whammies that Americans have to bear. It is great for India, but a real downer for Americans who aspire to become engineers and work in their own country.

I am disappointed. I had hoped the Indians granted these H1B visas would have worked in America, but I can clearly see that is not to be. They are to be shipped to India to work on projects there. Like they say, there are many ways to skin a cat, and thus there are many ways to work with H1B visas too. Perhaps it is better that American Universities come and set up their campuses in India. This way India can cut its cake and eat it too. Maybe they will throw some crumbs this way.

I hope Iraq and Afghanistan wars come to an end soon, before many more die on either side, so politicians can focus on the economy and future of America. Although I am now retired from IT, I would like to see this country (U.S) return to its days of glory. Why? Because I got so many opportunities here I could never have seen in India - not in my wildest dreams. I hope this explains why I am a cheerleader for America. That is not to say I have no feelings for India. I certainly do. But I want to see a win-win situation in this new US-India partnership, where each country benefits, starting now. No need to wait until the nuclear deal benefits U.S. That's a long way off from implementation.

Jaya Kamlani

[Ravinder Goel]

Dear friends
It is indeed interesting to see the reactions of persons who have made a 'fortune'for themselves in America or aspire to make one for them in coming days. My only appeal to them is to seriously evaluate the changes introduced by technology in working of the world economy and base their analysis and opinions in line with the new emerging reality.Further, if they are able to see beyond their limited self interest it would be better.
The fond hope of expecting America to return to its days of glory may well not come to happen. And those who are aspiring to come to India or outsourcing the work to India or Indians who are no more interested in going to America or coming back to India are merely reponding to the emerging market pressures and signals,just as many of our friends who participated in a 'quit India movement' till the early 1990s.
Mixing 'patriotic or nationalistic' ( of all types i.e. of the country of origin or the country of residence)fervour in evaluation of issues thrown up by outsourcing and other technology driven restructuring experiences, only blurs vision and is a sure recipe for disaster.

[Jaya Kamlani]

Hello Ravinder Goel,

Good to hear from you again. When I talk about America returning to its days of glory, I am referring to its innovative days. I recall the 1980s and 1990s as such exciting times in America because of its technology growth, just as India is experiencing it today. I lived in Silicon Valley then and personally experienced those days. I am retired from IT now, and have no “personal interest” that you are referring to, but I want our young to have opportunities, such as I did. When I talk of opportunities, I am referring to personal growth in terms of continuous education, learning and experiences, NOT fortunes. Experiences have more value in life than money.

I was disappointed that the H1B visas given to Indians were not going to be used to help build the American economy, but rather that they were going to be used for outsourcing to India. I believe many U.S companies have been already doing so much for India lately that in the process they were ignoring the needs of their fellow Americans. When they opened shop in India, by and large they employed Indian professionals. Now that Indian companies have opened offices in U.S, could they not reciprocate and employ Americans to create growth opportunities in America? How do you nurture a relationship? By giving and receiving, not just giving.

Ravi, you say: QUOTE “The fond hope of expecting America to return to its days of glory may well not come to happen.” UNQUOTE … That’s negative thinking. I wonder how American CEOs who have provided so many jobs to people in India would react to your statement? I like to think positive. I believe where there is a will there is a way. If the American companies, the American people and the government come together, anything is possible. We now have a new Congress in power. We are hopeful.

Here’s an article I received from a colleague this morning that put H1B visas and outsourcing to India into perspective. I am sure you will find this New Yorker article as interesting as I did.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/2007/04/16/070416ta_talk_surowiecki

THE NEW YORKER, The Financial Page
“India’s Skills Famine” by James Surowiecki, April 16, 2007

“India has run into a surprising hitch on its way to superpower status: its inexhaustible supply of workers is becoming exhausted. Although India has one of the youngest workforces on the planet, the head of Infosys said recently that there was an “acute shortage of skilled manpower,” and a study by Hewitt Associates projects that this year salaries for skilled workers will rise fourteen and a half per cent, a sure sign that demand for skilled labor is outstripping supply….”

Jaya Kamlani

[Jaya Kamlani]

Ravinder Goel,

Please read comments noted by Nupur and me on "OUTSOURCING: "Boston Globe, not Bangalore Globe" - New Union Ad Campaign" where you had also posted some comments earlier. I think Nupur has some good suggestions. I know the corporations will have to hash out a lot of these problems until they can come up with workable solutions that could benefit all.

http://www.sajaforum.org/2007/03/outsourcing_bos.html#comment-65935486

Jaya Kamlani

[IndianITWoman]

I find Sree's closing comment facile and offensively facetious. To suggest that non-Indian workers move to India because that's where the jobs are is to ignore stark realities. Basically, he sees nothing wrong with the idea that American citizens should be reduced to having to leave for "greener" pastures elsewhere, just like citizens of other third-world countries -- the Chinese, the Mexicans and the Indians. Sree, would you be as facetious if it was journalists whose jobs were on the line? and the suggestion was made that journalists -- yes, even academic ones like you -- move to India?

In his suggestion, there is, too, no awareness that Indian society is far from conducive for newcomers to settle in. Water and power shortages, poor public infrastructure, shortage of decent affordable accomodation are but a few challenges that come to mind. After all, if Americans move to India because that's where the jobs are, they would not make expat wages, but simply "prevailing" Indian wages, right?

Outsourcing, per se, is not the problem. Everytime we order pizza and every time we buy online instead of from a brick and mortar store, we outsource a function. But along the way we don't tell the replaced service provider that it is because they are not good enough. And if we outsource, it is sometimes for convenience and sometimes because it is less expensive.

In contrast the entire IT outsourcing debate is marked by conflation of facts and a total lack of integrity by corporations (American and Indian) and their media shills.

- Workers are being brought here or work is being sent to India because they are less expensive. Along the way 30 years of workplace safeguards like equal pay, non-discrimination in terms of gender and age, family-friendly policies are being thrown out the window

- Not all imported workers are the "best and brightest".

- America was able to innovate and compete without massive injections of foreign workers quite nicely. The Internet, telephony, and many innovations do not have the stamp of H-1Bs on them.

- Would you want your kids to have to attend Indian schools? I would not! So let's stop parroting the line that Indian schools are better than American ones. There are certainly problems with American education. But, that is NOT the reason why jobs are going to Indians.

Being pro-outsourcing has nothing to do with being pro or anti India. Being anti-outsourcing has nothing to do with being protectionist or racist.

It is about satya -- that old forgotten Hindu spiritual concept -- Truth!

Indian journalists working in the US have a unique perspective and they even have the platform to shed the light of Truth on this debate. The question is: are they up to the task?

[Jaya Kamlani]

Hello IndianITWoman,

WOW! I couldn't have said better what you have expressed on the outsourcing issue. It is true that the reason American companies are outsourcing is because the CEOs and Directors want to pocket all the money saved by outsourcing to "cheap labor" to India. But skilled or unskilled labor is getting more expensive in India these days. It isn't cheap any more. So will the American CEOs realize that the advantage they saw in outsourcing is slowly fading away, and that Indian CEOs too might be considering outsourcing to Philippines and other countries to save on costs and access to a bigger pool of skilled labor? How will Indians react then? That's one reason why these tens of thousands of H1B visas have been processed, primarily for outsourcing to India.

On another note, here is an editorial on CEO compensation packages in today's New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/opinion/12thu2.html?th&emc=th

Editorial – “The Billion-Dollar Brushoff” April 12, 2007
“If there is a single, logical justification for the wild executive compensation packages that have become standard at large American companies, it is performance. In too many cases, pay has little or nothing to do with results, and some of the most jaw-dropping packages are for executives who have been told to hand over the reins. This pay-for-failure is embodied by the $210 million package given Robert Nardelli, the former Home Depot chief executive... 36 chief executives ousted last year walked out with over a billion dollars between them…. And none of this takes into account the many excessive pay packages for executives clinging to their jobs with the help of compliant boards of directors, or those who received incentive-based pay thanks to inaccurate financial results... These multimillion-dollar sendoffs and mistakes must get pretty confusing for average workers who hear time and again that their wages cannot rise without making the company uncompetitive......”

P.S: I noticed in the last decade that Indians being promoted at various companies to executive levels are the companies that are outsourcing to India, or are opening up their offices in India. There is a reason why Indians are suddenly being promoted to such levels. These are Indians who have big connections in India and can help their U.S company succeed in India. I saw that trend gather steam while I was working in Silicon Valley. But now it has spread to financial services like CITIBANK and Wall Street companies and every other industry. This is the "Selling of America" or "America for Sale" by greedy American CEOs... This slow draining of American resources is what the journalists should be covering heavily. Is it possible that these journalists are also paid by Indian and American companies to sugarcoat the outsourcing issue?

Jaya Kamlani

[santosh]

Check out http://www.indiaJobster.com (IndiaJobster.com)

IndiaJobster.com launched last week and indexes all the jobs from India ( currently more than 3,25,000 jobs and thousands are added everday and are listed from all the major Indian job engines/job boards and news papers all with one click)

You dont have to go to multiple job sites to search for jobs posted. IndiaJobster.com does that for you and shows you jobs from all the sites in one place!

You can do a search on IndiaJobster (http://www.IndiaJobster.com) by location and keyword easliy with one click and get all the jobs in one place. You can even email the job search results to yourself!

They also provide a way to filter the job results by the job board.

Try IndiaJobster.com It’s cool! and its free… no advertisements or annonying pop ups!